The Hub Hubbub

(I started typing this response to Dek's thread here, but I wrote a lot and thought it might be better suited for this board.)

TL;DR, set up a neutral hub and let people go wild. Galaxy Citizen should be about fun, not obligation.

Bar RP isn't a bad thing.
I just wanted to throw in my two cents and say that I don't think bar RP is necessarily a bad thing, especially for newcomers. It provides a basic, comfy space for people to introduce and develop their characters, and for them to form connections like TurnWall said. The basic interactions that occur in bars have far less risks than many other types of RP, and lets players decide where their characters best fit. If their characters don't grow past bar RP, then maybe whatever's going on just isn't for them. There's no harm in that, so long as the player in question is having fun.

For me, the Outpost was the perfect starting point, because it let me do just that; I was able to introduce my milquetoast redheaded junker and learn how he could (and eventually would) fit in and stand out from other characters, as well as throw him in with unique and interesting characters that he wouldn't have met if he was tucked away on another hub (ex.: MPD bot, Vulcan/Vago/the Vagobots, the Boop brothers). Plus, seeing players duke it out or shady Hylotl bartenders who may have been ninjas all exist in the same space really set the tone for just how diverse GC's setting and population is, and perfectly exemplifies how these characters can all mesh together in a manner that was both fun and belevable There were pacifists, mercenaries, cat-girls, drunkards, and so many more all interacting under one roof.

This, to me, is what Galaxy Citizen is all about, and I think having a place that's disconnected from everywhere else, just like Cabbage said, a go-between that allows players to interact with others and explore at their own pace, is the best way of "fixing" the issues that accommodate current bar RP, as far as I can tell. Also, as many people have pointed out, bar RP is often a matter of convenience, so I think framing it as a starting point or baseline when you're not sure what to do or may not have the time to join up with the current plotline is a great way to get people to play on the server more, and stimulate roleplay through simple, accessible means.

Problems with the Current Set-Up
I'd like to start off by clarifying that I'm in no way faulting others for the current setup of GC. I really love how much personality and effort has manifested in each of the existing hubs, but those same factors are what makes them difficult to choose between in the first place. For a lot of players (or at least, from a handful that I've seen), heading to Calypso seems like something you should only do if you're connected to Atlas. The same goes for Garlen, with Ordo and all the Precursor stuff being kept hush-hush, which inadvertently frames anyone who has knowledge of it as part of an exclusive club that most players are discouraged from joining unless they want to risk mortal injury or death. Haven is no different, as open as it tends to be. While I actually really love how well-developed its political atmosphere is and how beautiful the hub itself turned out, I don't think I'd care if my characters weren't Haven citizens and friends with some of the senators.

This unintentional sectioning of hubs to specific plot-lines feels like a form of cliquing, where you have to either join up with one of the hub-related groups or find a populated place and drown yourself in Idle RP (which, unfortunately, is easier done in the Discords, off-server). While, yes, users can always run their own own subplots parallel to those listed or mess around on one of the other hubs, there's hardly any incentive to do it on the server when you can join one of the established public Discords or create your own in-universe off-shoot Discord. Incidentally, the latter ends up segmenting the server population even more as players form smaller groups in an attempt to create a space for socialization that's much more reliable than the server-side idle RP.

Even hubs like Baldr's suffer, because there's still lore and IC tidbits that you won't know unless you actively snoop through posts on the forum, and, though I personally love digging through older posts to find IC information, most players probably won't care for it anymore than they'd care for the Haven politics or Precursor drama.

Conclusion
I think Cabbage hit the nail on the head by suggesting a neutral area, and I think that Galaxy Citizen's Starbound server could benefit greatly by providing a little more freedom through said neutral grounds. While I understand completely why plot stuff is often lumped in with currently-active, neutral hubs, I think it's short-sighted in the same way that putting characters in the GC Discord banner is short-sighted; it sets up a central, forced narrative and alienates players who aren't actively partaking in plot (perhaps because they don't have the means ICly, or their schedule doesn't line up OOCly). Also, by praising and elevating certain characters and their values by quite literally making them the faces of the server, it sets them up as icons, and the lack of elaboration as to why they're special frames all their detractors, as well as any remotely-different characters, as iconoclasts.

Everybody is attracted to roleplay for a different reason, and there's no use in dragging players into a larger narrative if they're having fun playing a character that's separate, and maybe not as actionable. I, for one, love when things get heated ICly, when bar fights break out or intergalactic threats storm the Fringe, but I've met plenty of other players over the years who don't; on the Outpost, in the depths of Apollo, on the sands of Caprison, and so on. So long as their character falls in line with Galaxy Citizen's rules and guidelines, is there really an issue?

After all, the Fringe is a place of "freedom, neutrality, and choice," just as its logo, the Troisarc, implies. Why try to change that?

 

This is a nitro booster perk- not player preference. Boost the server and your character can be put in the banner.

 

Ah shoot, my bad.
What about the rest of the post though?

 

I like the idea of players actively affecting the hub through their actions, but it wasn’t the point of the post. And while I’ll admit that I didn’t know that Garlen was free to be explored by anyone until fairly recently, I feel like the fact that it wasn’t really communicated just kinda proves what I’m trying to say here.

When I say “neutral hub,” I’m not suggesting that there be a hub that’s available to be molded and built upon, but one that stays actively disconnected from player action. The reason why I used the Outpost as an example is because that was a flat, unchanging area that was basic and unintimidating to new characters, more than likely there wasn’t any lore that people needed to know going in, or any OOC information that’s apparently public knowledge, yet isn’t written anywhere on the forums. In this sense, the Outpost was and remained “neutral” because it was always a blank space, a place where no characters‘ motivations or efforts dominated the playing field. Characters who were completely opposed to one another couldn’t take control of an area, because the Outpost wasn’t a place to be built on, just visited.

While the “free-for-all” aspect that you mentioned is neat, it allows for people to whip out unfair advantages and dominate the hub, which I feel completely counteracts the idea of a hub being “neutral”. For example, if a character waltzes into Winston’s, whose been here for years and has amassed a fortune, decided to purchase it and ban all Florans and Hylotl for some IC reason (or worse, because of OOC motivation framed as IC motivation), doesn’t it contradict the idea of a ‘neutral’ hub? Also, the restriction of ships docking at Garlen seems to only have harmed smaller factions, rather than impeded ‘domination’ of the hub. Despite the absence of direct space-freight transportation, entire structures were created on Garlen briefly after its appearance, further cementing in my mind that this hub isn’t really neutral at all, but a place for powerful characters and groups to take control.

I’ll concede that there have been efforts by the staff, or perhaps GMs, to keep Garlen balanced. For example, I was told a while back that technology on Garlen is supposed to gradually deteriorate. However, I’ve still yet to see structures like Atlas’s bunker or Solus’s setup experience any wear, making this rule seems like more of a contrivance to prevent other players from setting up on Garlen more than anything else.

Despite everything I’ve said, I’m not opposed to Garlen. It’s a cool place with a really interesting plot attached to it, but I think it suffers from its attempts at ‘free-for-all neutrality’ where a truly, non-player controlled hub wouldn’t.

 

You raise a lot of good points and I’m sleepy so I’m going to do my best to address them individually, but please don’t hesitate to let me know if I miss something!

To start, I do remember the Outpost used to receive tons of flak, but I remember it for the reason outlined in the initial post — that everybody was herding together in the bar instead of branching out. And while I understand that this in itself is a problem and encourages complacency with idle RP over participating in server plots and events, I outlined why this may not be a bad thing in said initial post.

Also, I agree that controversial IC actions should net IC consequences — but sometimes, they just don’t. I can count on my hands the times that players have guarded their characters in actions that edge on powergaming through impossibly quick or powerful actions that can be traced back to “well, I play x race and x race is naturally that quick/powerful/whatever.” To say that the idea of controversial actions being met with IC repercussions brings to light the fact that a lot of people don’t play fair. And while reporting is always an option, sometimes it’s hard to quantify what’s permitted in the first place, especially when more popular or well-known characters seems to get by with this sort of thing completely fine.

As a result of this, many people often decide to either elevate their own character’s abilities or walk away, which is why, I feel, it’s necessary that the staff at least consider this when opting to install a hub that’s truly “free-for-all”. In a sector that’s built on characters who were constructed years back under different rules or who belong to races or groups that simply aren’t playable by others anymore, it seems a bit careless to act as if there’s a budding sense of equality and social freedom for characters to build and establish things as they please.

This lack of equality even manifests in your example of bigger factions setting up on Garlen. The leaders of the ICIF, Atlas, Solus, and even Bulphrog all had connections to the staff or the development of ongoing plots, or ones that recently ended around the time of Garlen’s appearance. I apologize that my timetables for the appearance of Garlen and the establishment of each factions’ bases were wrong, but the fact that the first people to settle on Garlen were connected to the staff and development of the plot raises tons of red flags to me. I’m not at all trying to imply that there was a severe overlap between OOC, nor that the staff were or have been unfair in their professional behaviors, but this example is, to me, is why I feel that a “staff-controlled zone”, as you put it, is necessary. My intention was never to ask that it replace any of the current hubs, especially ones with ongoing plots like Garlen, just to establish something basic to ensure that new characters can start on equal footing, and have a place to go that isn’t under the jurisdiction.

I wanna finish this post by admitting that, no, I don’t have any examples of smaller factions being blocked out of Garlen, but also that that doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened. I’m certain plenty of people shared my mindset until recently that Garlen was untouchable, as it was seemed to be the epicenter of one of Galaxy Citizen’s biggest plot yet. It may help to write that somewhere, maybe in a “Notable Fringe Worlds” post with the spoiler details excluded that you desire so your GMing isn’t affected, but so players have a resource when trying to find out what is and isn’t ICly possible on Garlen.

Also, I didn’t realize that the wear on the buildings had happened at all, let alone potentially reset due to a technical issue. I’m sorry, and I’d like to take a moment to you and the other staff for keeping the server running for — I think — five years. That requires an insane amount of maintenance, and I can’t imagine it’s been easy.

I’m gonna sleep in a sec, but please keep the conversation going her. I’ll do my best to respond when I wake up!

 

I had this huge text wall, paragraphs upon paragraphs of elaboration prepared, but then my computer shut off and when I tried to access the post on mobile, it reverted to a much earlier draft As such, this post isn't as articulate as its previous iteration, but I'll do my best to address both of your points.

Also, this is likely going to be my last post on this topic, as I'm juggling a bunch of stuff IRL, which is why my activity has decreased drastically in the Discords, on the forums (with yesterday being an exception), and on the server. I accomplish what I wanted with this post, which was to strike up a conversation with the staff about the possibility of a 'neutral' hub, a conversation which has extended to far greater lengths than I expected. Thanks to you guys for putting forward genuine, informative explanations and hearing me out. Here goes!

To me, a lot of the issues surrounding Garlen seem to be a matter of poor communication, rather than exclusivity as I initially suspected. And while your efforts (as well as those of other staff members) to communicate the freedom to develop and explore Garlen have been commendable, this feels like an unnecessary excess in the staff's workload, and I think they would benefit greatly from a post in the 'Notable Fringe Worlds' board or wherever the staff designate it. This post could include OOC level of consent per areas, what is and isn't ICly possible on a basic level (ex.: Can John McSpacer beam in construction supplies to construct a hut? Where can someone build, and what are the limitations? Are the Solus drones going to be hostile if he tries to enter the mine without access?), and its known IC connections to the overarching plot. Ironically, despite Garlen's location in a supposed pocket dimension, it bears far more relevance and significance to the server than any others, so sectioning it off and shrouding it in mystery to 'encourage explanation' seems more like an excuse than a solid argument.

I also want to take a minute and say that a lot of the staff members seem eager to place the blame on the players for not exploring or partaking in plot events, or developing Garlen further, but I feel that this falls back on the lack of invitation. In all my years running events, subplots, and DMing, I've learned that the key to getting users to participate is encouragement, not expectation. You can't make people join your plotline, it's a matter of letting them engage if they want to, and then reworking it if that doesn't garner the attention you wanted. If I don't want to send Koo into the Garlen woods alone because I'd rather him not endure that trauma while he's already got his own subplot going on, then that's my choice. No staff member should be acting as if I'm in the wrong because I'm not playing the game they want me to play it. Like I said in my original post, everyone gets into roleplay or a different reason, and to suggest they play one way or another is completely asinine.

As for the staff 'favoring' the early settlers on Garlen, my take on it isn't that the staff are actively rooting for these characters or groups, but that it seems like information is clearly communicated among people who are connected to the staff or central plot, and that efforts to communicate that information everyone else either quickly diminish, or never occur. Teldrassil's recent post on OOC secrecy, as far as I can tell, was at least partially linked to a discussion we had about psions, shifters, and other powered characters, one in which I was certain that I couldn't discuss shifter business openly, only for another staff member to come along on the question board and say otherwise.
While I admit that I'm no stranger to this kind of OOC secrecy, and that it can be fun, I think it's integral that the staff re-examine how information with far-reaching effects, such as racial abilities or hub development, is dispersed. I don't personally mind that the staff are involved with everyone -- as a matter of fact, I'm fairly certain that's why Galaxy Citizen has stayed afloat for as long as it has. But if we hope to grow, we need to acknowledge that some characters, even some players, don't have any connection to the staff and their proponents, which can make it much harder for new characters, especially those attached to new players, to get involved.

Also, referring to what I'm asking for as a 'perfect' hub is, in my opinion, a reduction of my suggestion. What I seek when asking for a 'neutral' zone isn't a non-combative utopia where bar RP is the only form of discourse. I'm asking for a hub that's divorced from plots and factions, from the ongoings in character's lives and plotlines. A place like this would allow characters to step away from their worries to carouse, and interact with others doing the same. It wouldn't have to be anything more than a bar and a landscape, with said bar area providing a neat chance for cross-pollination between characters from completely distinct parts of the Fringe. If the staff are seriously opposed to that, then that's totally fine. That's why this is the suggestion board.

On the topic of separating from plots and factions, I just wanna say that, despite my remarks about reducing their influence over hubs, I have nothing against the current big players of the Fringe. Heck, a third of my characters have even ran with them at one point or another (shout-out to ODIN for helping Calvin/Wallace kill their double and to Markus Aleksandr for helping them hide the body). When I ask for bigger factions to stop indirectly stamping out smaller factions, I'm not taking issue with the fact that these groups are broadening their horizons and growing in number, quite the contrary; I'm asking that we be given a place where a player doesn't need to know these groups to know what's going on. Said place shouldn't serve to replace any existing hubs, just serve alongside them as a place to go if a player doesn't want to engage with these groups.

Having said ALL of that, I want to finish up by saying thank you, WowGain, 9k, and Pink (and Majo for the correction!), for addressing what I've said. While I've expressed a lot of discontent through these posts, I'd like to once again reiterate that I love a lot of what Galaxy Citizen has to offer. Not only has it given me the opportunity to tell and be a part of some really fantastic stories, but it's also given me a chance to learn about myself and connect with others who, like me, just want to tell a story. And, in the end, that's what Galaxy Citizen is about; telling stories. The whole reason I joined was because of the creative freedom that's persisted as the spirit of the server to this very day, which I'd gladly credit as part of what's kept me putting pen to paper for the past few years. I love this server a lot, and though I may not agree with every decision that's been made, I wouldn't give it up for the world.

Thanks

 

cool but lets just remove all lore and make GC gundam

 

-shoves dk into a locker and changes the code-
sorry guys, had to take care of the goblin. carry on with your discussion.